After a recent social media post by the son of the late MF DOOM, the question has been raised as to who inherits the legacy of the infamous Metalface mask?
Daniel Dumile Jr., who holds the namesake of his father who is best known as the Madvillian MF DOOM, posted a picture of a handwritten letter that is allegedly penned by the late rapper/artist that states that his son shall inherit all of his “possessions, assets and interests” when he passes away. Unfortunately, DOOM died on Halloween 2020, but his death wasn’t announced until exactly two months later on New Year’s Eve, with his wife and record label making the delayed announcement.
With the fact that DOOM did not have a will and this letter was never officially notarized, it leaves room for doubt in the court of public opinion to the validity of the letter as well as possible misappropriation of the assets of one of Hip Hop’s most intriguing figures. Graff artist KEO XMEN was the unofficial point person for the continuum of the popular DDOM throwie, but Dumile Jr. contends that KEO’s rendition of the DOOM is merely a carbon copy of the original.
Daniel, a visual artist, is slated to create a memorial project in the name of his father this upcoming year, but the decision as to who will ultimately be left to inherit and control the legacy of the world famous metal mask.
On the last day of 2020 the world was shocked to learn that hip hop’s supervillain, MF DOOM had passed away 2 month’s prior October 31st. Shock, disbelief and sadness spread across the community of fans, family and people who loved him.
My story with DOOM started in 2004. I was working on The Beautiful Struggle tour for Talib Kweli and DOOM was the opener. I was rushing around backstage when I saw him and Benn Grimm waiting to go onstage.
“You got a dutch?” I asked him, pushing past Benn who seemed like he was trying to block him. “Nah I don’t have one, he replied, flashing a smile of 18k gold fronts. At that moment, Kweli walks by and says, “Oh you met DOOM, this is my assistant Courtney Brown— Court, you know DOOM is from KMD?’
BB Kings Show in NYC
This was the beginning of a friendship that would forever influence my life. Not much long after our initial meeting we became road buddies and I came to know the author Daniel Dumile. After watching me problem solve on the road for Kweli, he asked me to work for him and his wife Jasmine once that tour ended. They both taught me how to navigate the business world as well as helped with my personal growth. DOOM was a teacher and to be in his circle you had to study. He would send countless 4 hour lectures and sign books that he felt were pertinent to my growth.
Onstage with Mos who loved DOOM
Once his mask was removed, he revealed he was thoughtful… full of curiosity, kindness and unusual talent. He treated me like a queen in an industry that took advantage of women. He didn’t act like a rapper because as he said that wasn’t even him. He would run errands, helped with my goals and always knew how to fix everything. He inconspicuously took the train from NYC in a snowstorm to Jersey Shore to help us pack up my granny’s 7 bedroom house for sale. Even though he just released his classic album MM…FOOD , he trooped through the snow walking from the train to our house in Neptune, NJ because no cars were available. We stayed up all night talking about everything under the sun as he meticulously wrapped heirlooms inquiring about each item.
I moved to LA to assist him as he worked on DangerDOOM. During that time we spent a lot of time finding inspiration for that album and hanging out with my best friend at the time Kelis and her husband, rapper Nas. One day after a bougie LA dinner I convinced them to come back to my hotel room where DOOM put on some beats and Nas began freestyling. This lasted nearly an hour. DOOM had his Special Herbs CD on him and it was a historical moment not captured on camera or recorded.
Eventually my job description grew as I became a part of his ‘entourage’ but DOOM was a villain and there was always more to be revealed. When I began writing he supported that too—demanding I write many of his cover stories including his FRANK 151 cover.
written by C. Boogie Brown
One day he instructed me to do an entire press day with what he called a ‘robot’ and later I found out it would be Benn Grimm. (He was full of surprises.) He told me not to let ANYONE in the room except the journalists for the interviews and the photographers to take photos. I was scared shitless. We were shooting a cover with a fake DOOM. I had on my best business ensemble and issued a lot of ‘no’s’ that day. We made it through that day until a woman who knew him and demanded to speak to him kept pressuring to enter the room.
Busted. We stayed up that night with him and Jas in Atlanta and me in New York writing the perfect editorial for Elemental Magazine who was pretty upset.
One of my first Editors gig.
He and I together composed the perfect words to explain his tactics. And Jas, always loving and fair, paid me handsomely for my work. They both respected my pen. We moved back to LA to work on MADVILLAIN 2 and that album is the greatest album no one has heard yet. Built off a lot of crazy experiences and real life situations he turned into songs, he put a lot of work into that record. Although he didn’t complete it, he felt masterpieces should not be rushed. One song we researched for weeks which came from a weird news story I told him about in New York. We laughed about it for nearly 2 hours before the intense research began. We called it the ‘monkey song’. He recorded a few songs with Ghostface during that time and he was one of the few rappers I could get to change lyrics which is why there are 2 versions of Angels.
“I asked him, “Why does GHOST say 3 white b****?”…
I could go on for eternity with stories, memories and lessons I learned from the supervillain. He was very strategic and placed things and people where he wanted them to be. He knew what he was doing. Many might wonder why I would reveal so much. DOOM often talked about not being here and of course I would shrug it off. He emphatically told me, “If I’m not here anymore, you better tell that story. I’d rather it be you then anybody. Villain!” Maybe one day, I will. Rest in Power DOOM.
This past weekend, Madvillain’s Madvillainy celebrated its 15th-anniversary. Having released on March 23, 2004, the union of Madlib and MF DOOM marked a transformative moment in the careers of two Hip-Hop veterans with a passion for reinvention, character creation, and wildly inventive Rap music.
Both of these artists rarely speak to press about their music. However, DOOM gave a recent and rare interview to Spin‘s Will Gottsegen about the 2004 Stones Throw album. He recalled its creation and discussed the unreleased follow-up material he has made with Madlib. DOOM also speaks at length about his late son, King Malachi Dumile, who died in late 2017 at the age of 14. For fans of the MC who has some of the most asymmetrical rhymes in all of music, DOOM also explains how he treats writing verses like a game. As an artist who many believe is far-and-above his peers, Daniel Dumile has created a way to make songwriting fun and competitive, even if most MCs are not in his league.
MF DOOM is asked about the creative layout leading up to the LP. “Both of us are producers. We both have our set of equipment that we use. And Madlib be having drums and all kinds of sh*t in the crib. We were at a big house, and we could be anywhere in the house doing what we do.” DOOM was credited with production on intro “The Illest Villains,” and recording throughout the album. The rest of the beats belonged to Madlib, who the KMD co-founder refers to as “Otis” or “O.”
The Long Island, New York representative recalls writing and recording while puffing on Sour Diesel in particular. He and Madlib laid tracks in a space originally purposed as a bomb shelter. “There was a room we used to call the bomb shelter. There was no windows in there. It was like a real bomb shelter, like if something went off, you could be down there and you’d be alright. And that’s where we had some of the recording equipment, where we could actually record. We would only go in there when it was time to record. The rest of the time, I’m writing around the crib, listening to the beat on the deck, or in the whip, driving around. The whole house was the studio.”
Having worked with other producers, DOOM also explains the Madvillain aesthetic he formed with Madlib, as he recalls it. “Madvillain, the approach I took on that one is like, I’m talking to Otis. Like, ‘Yo O, check it out, ha ha.’ Making jokes at somebody, like I’m speaking to somebody audibly, out loud. So that’s the difference. That’s what I did to differentiate the DOOM realm, which is an in-thought realm, from Madvillain, which is more like an outside realm.”
DOOM, who has veiled his face following the death of his brother (and KMD band-mate) Subroc, recalls going out in Cali’ and leaving the mask back at the lab. “Most of the time I don’t go out, so the couple of times I did go out, it was memorable. We’d go to the club and listen to music, basically. Every once in a while, you get a clown in there. Otis is kind of popular; people know his face. I don’t get no problems; motherf*ckers don’t know me. But sometimes, when people know your face like that, they’ll target you. They might be like, ‘Yo, that ni**a be with my girl,’ or whatever, or be a little jealous, and sh*t like that. One time, some cat got jealous and sh*t, and he started trying to front on O. But he didn’t do nothing! He was about to get smashed, but I wasn’t rolling like that. That night, I parlayed. I was on some peaceful sh*t at that moment. O was alright; he wouldn’t care. Dude was jealous.” DOOM also admits that he only listens to one of the definitive albums in his catalog “every other year” or so.
The rarely accessible MC/producer gives an interesting answer when asked if he would change anything about Madvillainy. “Nah, I can’t change nothing on it. It’s perfect the way we did it. I remember when we was doing it, I remember the days, and things that was going on. When I was hearing a beat that day, like a Sunday, it might have rained a little bit that day, it was wet on the ground a little bit. Very quiet up there in them hills, so we could focus and think. To me, if I would say, ‘Oh, I would change that now,’ it’s like changing part of the day. Even if you had a day when you stubbed your toe, when you stubbed your toe you met that girl after that. If you ain’t stubbed your toe, would you have met that girl? You know what I mean? I wouldn’t change anything about it, it was perfect, it was the way how a day would go.”
Gottsegen brings up DOOM’s intricate rhyme writing, a quality that glows on Madvillainy. “You have to go the extra mile to use a technique like [I do] in your writing. When you’re looking at quality of wordplay, you’re looking at, how many words repeat in a bar, or two bars? How many syllables can you use that still make sense in a song?” DOOM says that he equates writing rhymes to word-based board games. “In certain ways, you get a triple-word-score. You know how in Scrabble, you have triple word score joints, the way you get points based on words, and how they correlate on the board? It’s similar to getting points like that, if you really take it to the next level.”
He continues, “What I be looking at is the quality of the rhyming word: phonetically, how the tone is, in the pronunciation of the word. Regardless of language—you can be fluent and speaking Spanish, Arabic, whatever. You can use an Arabic word to rhyme with a Spanish word and have English slang all in between it. As long as the word itself rhymes, you still get points for that word. And the reference is another way of bringing that same thing home. How many references can you cross and still stay on topic? And still rhyme? The more complex the subject matter and wordplay is, that’s where you get your points.” He puts it simply, “I’m a rhymer, so I go for points.”
Notably, DOOM also describes why he favors certain subject matters that stand out in Rap. “I ain’t going to be talking sh*t about the next dude, or bragging about sh*t I got. I talk broke sh*t, I talk about sh*t I don’t got, or things I’m striving for.Say you’re speaking from a point of view where you’re talking to yourself, in maybe a sad mood. How do your tones come across? Can people feel what you’re saying? Can they hear what you’re saying? Are you well pronounced? Maybe you purposely were a little bit sloppy with it, to bring the point across. Can you bring the point across and still get the rhyme points? It’s like gymnastics on paper.”
“I don’t really do music at home,” DOOM reveals later in the conversation. “I do that sh*t just to get money. I write rhymes and sh*t to get money. Other than that, I don’t listen to Hip-Hop music. I listen to Jazz music and instrumentals and sh*t like that. I only do this for the simple fact of points-per-rhyme, the point game. It seems to be a profitable thing these days, and nobody else is really paying attention to it. You can be about your points, and if nobody else can do it, you can get some change off that joint, because you’re the only one doing it like that. That’s what I get out of the rhyming.”
He continues, “I didn’t know it was gonna be such a popular thing. It’s something we used to do for a side hobby, to keep your mind fresh. Word games. You might be walking down the street, playing with words in your mind, so you throw them back and forth, and words that rhyme just come to you. It’s something we did as a hobby, like practicing thoughts, brain exercises. Word searches and things like that, studying different languages, where words come from.” Looking at a career that’s been active for more than 30 years, the artist who in the 2000s called Georgia his home continues, “I’m blessed to be part of this whole thing, from this Hip-Hop experience.”
Metal Face also spoke about his late son, who was born in the same year DOOM and Madlib recorded. “I had a chance to be there when he was born, and then I went out to L.A. to do the record, for a month or two or three, some sh*t like that,” he remembers. “When a baby’s first born, they be so little. You can hold him, but you can’t really do nothing. By the time I came back, he was a little older, but he wasn’t walking yet.”
He adds that while he was not an MC, King Malachi upheld his father’s trade as far as words. “[King Malachi] didn’t ever like that kind of music. But he was a word game-type dude. Every morning, he would write down his dreams, and that would keep him writing. He worked on a book of short stories, and he was just about to get it all in order so he could publish it. He turned out to be quite the young writer. I’m really proud of him, still, right now. And I’m definitely going to make sure that book gets published, and his ideas come out.” DOOM reveals that his child never cursed, even when he tried to prompt him.
DOOM admits that he did sign permission for 2008’s Madvillain remix album, with new beats by Madlib. However, for fans wondering if a beloved 2000s duo can make its return, MF DOOM gives hope. “Since then, we’ve recorded a lot more stuff. There’s a few of them we could put out as whole albums. I’m just looking for the right time. It’s hard to choose a time, as far as the manufacturing side, and the business side. Once that’s all out of the way, people will hear more of it. It’s a ton of stuff that we got.” In the last decade, Madlib left Stones Throw to release many projects through his Madlib Invasion imprint. Meanwhile, DOOM has independently released projects through Metal Face Records along with various labels.
DOOM could not specifically recall when he last recorded with Madlib for Madvillain (which reportedly included one summer-long residency in California). However, he does claim that there are three or four albums worth of material in the vaults. “If you heard them back to back, it would sound like both of them are interchangeable [with Madvillainy]. All three of them, there’s actually three or four of them by now.” Several songs claiming to be Madvillain tracks have leaked in the 2010s. Although it is unclear of their authenticity.
Last week, Stones Throw Records founder Peanut Butter Wolf appeared on Questlove Supreme. The San Jose, California native addressed the original, leaked version of Madvillainy, known as “The Retarded Hard Copy.” He also described Madlib’s creative intricacies and the MC/producer/DJ’s relationship with Stones Throw today.
This past weekend, Madvillain’s Madvillainy celebrated its 15th-anniversary. Having released on March 23, 2004, the union of Madlib and MF DOOM marked a transformative moment in the careers of two Hip-Hop veterans with a passion for reinvention, character creation, and wildly inventive Rap music.
Both of these artists rarely speak to press about their music. However, DOOM gave a recent and rare interview to Spin‘s Will Gottsegen about the 2004 Stones Throw album. He recalled its creation and discussed the unreleased follow-up material he has made with Madlib. DOOM also speaks at length about his late son, King Malachi Dumile, who died in late 2017 at the age of 14. For fans of the MC who has some of the most asymmetrical rhymes in all of music, DOOM also explains how he treats writing verses like a game. As an artist who many believe is far-and-above his peers, Daniel Dumile has created a way to make songwriting fun and competitive, even if most MCs are not in his league.
MF DOOM is asked about the creative layout leading up to the LP. “Both of us are producers. We both have our set of equipment that we use. And Madlib be having drums and all kinds of sh*t in the crib. We were at a big house, and we could be anywhere in the house doing what we do.” DOOM was credited with production on intro “The Illest Villains,” and recording throughout the album. The rest of the beats belonged to Madlib, who the KMD co-founder refers to as “Otis” or “O.”
The Long Island, New York representative recalls writing and recording while puffing on Sour Diesel in particular. He and Madlib laid tracks in a space originally purposed as a bomb shelter. “There was a room we used to call the bomb shelter. There was no windows in there. It was like a real bomb shelter, like if something went off, you could be down there and you’d be alright. And that’s where we had some of the recording equipment, where we could actually record. We would only go in there when it was time to record. The rest of the time, I’m writing around the crib, listening to the beat on the deck, or in the whip, driving around. The whole house was the studio.”
Having worked with other producers, DOOM also explains the Madvillain aesthetic he formed with Madlib, as he recalls it. “Madvillain, the approach I took on that one is like, I’m talking to Otis. Like, ‘Yo O, check it out, ha ha.’ Making jokes at somebody, like I’m speaking to somebody audibly, out loud. So that’s the difference. That’s what I did to differentiate the DOOM realm, which is an in-thought realm, from Madvillain, which is more like an outside realm.”
DOOM, who has veiled his face following the death of his brother (and KMD band-mate) Subroc, recalls going out in Cali’ and leaving the mask back at the lab. “Most of the time I don’t go out, so the couple of times I did go out, it was memorable. We’d go to the club and listen to music, basically. Every once in a while, you get a clown in there. Otis is kind of popular; people know his face. I don’t get no problems; motherf*ckers don’t know me. But sometimes, when people know your face like that, they’ll target you. They might be like, ‘Yo, that ni**a be with my girl,’ or whatever, or be a little jealous, and sh*t like that. One time, some cat got jealous and sh*t, and he started trying to front on O. But he didn’t do nothing! He was about to get smashed, but I wasn’t rolling like that. That night, I parlayed. I was on some peaceful sh*t at that moment. O was alright; he wouldn’t care. Dude was jealous.” DOOM also admits that he only listens to one of the definitive albums in his catalog “every other year” or so.
The rarely accessible MC/producer gives an interesting answer when asked if he would change anything about Madvillainy. “Nah, I can’t change nothing on it. It’s perfect the way we did it. I remember when we was doing it, I remember the days, and things that was going on. When I was hearing a beat that day, like a Sunday, it might have rained a little bit that day, it was wet on the ground a little bit. Very quiet up there in them hills, so we could focus and think. To me, if I would say, ‘Oh, I would change that now,’ it’s like changing part of the day. Even if you had a day when you stubbed your toe, when you stubbed your toe you met that girl after that. If you ain’t stubbed your toe, would you have met that girl? You know what I mean? I wouldn’t change anything about it, it was perfect, it was the way how a day would go.”
Gottsegen brings up DOOM’s intricate rhyme writing, a quality that glows on Madvillainy. “You have to go the extra mile to use a technique like [I do] in your writing. When you’re looking at quality of wordplay, you’re looking at, how many words repeat in a bar, or two bars? How many syllables can you use that still make sense in a song?” DOOM says that he equates writing rhymes to word-based board games. “In certain ways, you get a triple-word-score. You know how in Scrabble, you have triple word score joints, the way you get points based on words, and how they correlate on the board? It’s similar to getting points like that, if you really take it to the next level.”
He continues, “What I be looking at is the quality of the rhyming word: phonetically, how the tone is, in the pronunciation of the word. Regardless of language—you can be fluent and speaking Spanish, Arabic, whatever. You can use an Arabic word to rhyme with a Spanish word and have English slang all in between it. As long as the word itself rhymes, you still get points for that word. And the reference is another way of bringing that same thing home. How many references can you cross and still stay on topic? And still rhyme? The more complex the subject matter and wordplay is, that’s where you get your points.” He puts it simply, “I’m a rhymer, so I go for points.”
Notably, DOOM also describes why he favors certain subject matters that stand out in Rap. “I ain’t going to be talking sh*t about the next dude, or bragging about sh*t I got. I talk broke sh*t, I talk about sh*t I don’t got, or things I’m striving for.Say you’re speaking from a point of view where you’re talking to yourself, in maybe a sad mood. How do your tones come across? Can people feel what you’re saying? Can they hear what you’re saying? Are you well pronounced? Maybe you purposely were a little bit sloppy with it, to bring the point across. Can you bring the point across and still get the rhyme points? It’s like gymnastics on paper.”
“I don’t really do music at home,” DOOM reveals later in the conversation. “I do that sh*t just to get money. I write rhymes and sh*t to get money. Other than that, I don’t listen to Hip-Hop music. I listen to Jazz music and instrumentals and sh*t like that. I only do this for the simple fact of points-per-rhyme, the point game. It seems to be a profitable thing these days, and nobody else is really paying attention to it. You can be about your points, and if nobody else can do it, you can get some change off that joint, because you’re the only one doing it like that. That’s what I get out of the rhyming.”
He continues, “I didn’t know it was gonna be such a popular thing. It’s something we used to do for a side hobby, to keep your mind fresh. Word games. You might be walking down the street, playing with words in your mind, so you throw them back and forth, and words that rhyme just come to you. It’s something we did as a hobby, like practicing thoughts, brain exercises. Word searches and things like that, studying different languages, where words come from.” Looking at a career that’s been active for more than 30 years, the artist who in the 2000s called Georgia his home continues, “I’m blessed to be part of this whole thing, from this Hip-Hop experience.”
Metal Face also spoke about his late son, who was born in the same year DOOM and Madlib recorded. “I had a chance to be there when he was born, and then I went out to L.A. to do the record, for a month or two or three, some sh*t like that,” he remembers. “When a baby’s first born, they be so little. You can hold him, but you can’t really do nothing. By the time I came back, he was a little older, but he wasn’t walking yet.”
He adds that while he was not an MC, King Malachi upheld his father’s trade as far as words. “[King Malachi] didn’t ever like that kind of music. But he was a word game-type dude. Every morning, he would write down his dreams, and that would keep him writing. He worked on a book of short stories, and he was just about to get it all in order so he could publish it. He turned out to be quite the young writer. I’m really proud of him, still, right now. And I’m definitely going to make sure that book gets published, and his ideas come out.” DOOM reveals that his child never cursed, even when he tried to prompt him.
DOOM admits that he did sign permission for 2008’s Madvillain remix album, with new beats by Madlib. However, for fans wondering if a beloved 2000s duo can make its return, MF DOOM gives hope. “Since then, we’ve recorded a lot more stuff. There’s a few of them we could put out as whole albums. I’m just looking for the right time. It’s hard to choose a time, as far as the manufacturing side, and the business side. Once that’s all out of the way, people will hear more of it. It’s a ton of stuff that we got.” In the last decade, Madlib left Stones Throw to release many projects through his Madlib Invasion imprint. Meanwhile, DOOM has independently released projects through Metal Face Records along with various labels.
DOOM could not specifically recall when he last recorded with Madlib for Madvillain (which reportedly included one summer-long residency in California). However, he does claim that there are three or four albums worth of material in the vaults. “If you heard them back to back, it would sound like both of them are interchangeable [with Madvillainy]. All three of them, there’s actually three or four of them by now.” Several songs claiming to be Madvillain tracks have leaked in the 2010s. Although it is unclear of their authenticity.
Last week, Stones Throw Records founder Peanut Butter Wolf appeared on Questlove Supreme. The San Jose, California native addressed the original, leaked version of Madvillainy, known as “The Retarded Hard Copy.” He also described Madlib’s creative intricacies and the MC/producer/DJ’s relationship with Stones Throw today.
The series, taking its name from a text by Alain Locke, will make its debut on the network April 19, with a simulcast on BET. According to Pitchfork, it will feature guests of Hip-Hop peers including Method Man, MF DOOM, Phonte, Danny Brown, Lizzo, and past Open Mike collaborator, comedian Hannibal Buress.
“That book was a collection of essays, poetry, fiction, and music from a generation of emerging artists credited with launching the Harlem Renaissance,” Mike wrote in a statement with creative partner Baron Vaughn. “It was a place where Black people could define themselves instead of being defined by others. Our show aspires to do the same with stand-up comedy, music, and music videos. We’re paying homage to that original movement by inviting comedians and musicians to do what they do best: speak.” A trailer released:
Songs will be released in conjunction with each episode. This year, Mike, who has worked extensively with Mello Music Group, has appeared on albums by Blockhead and Pan Amsterdam.
The series, taking its name from a text by Alain Locke, will make its debut on the network April 19, with a simulcast on BET. According to Pitchfork, it will feature guests of Hip-Hop peers including Method Man, MF DOOM, Phonte, Danny Brown, Lizzo, and past Open Mike collaborator, comedian Hannibal Buress.
“That book was a collection of essays, poetry, fiction, and music from a generation of emerging artists credited with launching the Harlem Renaissance,” Mike wrote in a statement with creative partner Baron Vaughn. “It was a place where Black people could define themselves instead of being defined by others. Our show aspires to do the same with stand-up comedy, music, and music videos. We’re paying homage to that original movement by inviting comedians and musicians to do what they do best: speak.” A trailer released:
Songs will be released in conjunction with each episode. This year, Mike, who has worked extensively with Mello Music Group, has appeared on albums by Blockhead and Pan Amsterdam.
At the 37:00 mark, Questlove brings up Lootpack, the Oxnard, California collective of Madlib, Wildchild, and DJ Romes. The trio that first appeared on Tha Alkaholiks’ 21 & Over went on to release a full-length on Stones Throw in 1998. That collection, Soundpieces: Da Antidote, prompted J Dilla to call Soulquarians collaborator Questlove late one night shortly after its release. “I met my match, man,” Dilla reportedly told The Roots’ band-leader. At the time, Quest’ recalls purchasing four copies at Downtown Manhattan’s Fat Beats store, and listening to the album alongside D’Angelo, presumably at the Electric Lady Studios where they were recording Voodoo. Five years later, Madlib and Dilla would form JayLib together.
Wolf explains, “I was going through the demos recently; the demo versions were all just recorded the way Madlib wanted it. Then we went to like a bigger studio and they multi-tracked it, and mixed everything [differently]. Madlib is like the nicest guy—like he won’t always speak up for what he wants sometimes, so you won’t always know what he really he wants—at least he was back then. So the engineer that did Lootpack, he mixed it a lot differently than the way Madlib’s demo sounded. Madlib cannot listen to [Soundpieces: Da Antidote]; he hates it because of the [mix]. Everything is too perfect and clean for him—clean for the [Emu Systems SP] 1200 anyway.”
Wolf, who is an accomplished artist, DJ, and producer says that Madlib’s subsequent control of the mix grew challenging as Stones Throw tried to shop him to artists. “After that, he would never give [engineers or artists] multi-tracks. I was trying to get Madlib beats to Nas and Q-Tip and people at the time, and it couldn’t happen ’cause he wouldn’t multi-track it.” One placement was in 2004, on De La Soul’s The Grind Date. “I remember with De La [Soul], when they did the ‘Shopping Bags’ [single], they wrote to it after I gave them just the two-track of it. They’re like, ‘Alright, we [are ready] for the multi’s.’ There are no multi’s. They were upset with me; I was kind of caught in the middle ’cause it was miscommunication where they assumed I was gonna give them multi’s on it.” Phonte says that in his experience with Madlib, he has witnessed this to be true. He says that as a longtime fan, he appreciates the aesthetic.
“That’s how Madvillain was created. That’s how JayLib, all the Quasimoto [albums too],” continues Peanut Butter Wolf. “When Madlib told me he wanted to work with DOOM and Dilla, that was our job to find those two guys and make it happen.”
As the discussion progresses into 2004’s Madvillainy, Wolf brings up what is known as “The Retarded Hard Copy” version of the collaborative project between MF DOOM and Madlib. “There’s a whole other version of [Madvillainy]; I don’t know if you ever heard it. But originally, DOOM rapped the whole album in like a hype tone. That version leaked. And I don’t know if DOOM felt like since it leaked he was gonna re-do the whole album or—I don’t know. But for whatever reason, he went back and did the whole album in a laid back way.”
Despite the released version’s accolades, some who have heard both were reportedly hesitant. “The initial response was, ‘I liked him better hype. Why’d he do that? He ruined it.’ But for the people who never heard the hype version, they really responded to it.”
Wolf continues, “That album, JayLib, Quas’, and several other albums were all done at the same time using 150 beats that Madlib had put on three CDs. It was like 50 beats per CD. And it was all like 30-second snippets and stuff.” The guest then explains how and why the onetime flagship artist of Stones Throw stays so prolific. “They’re all done so quickly. He used to live with another producer. That other producer would spend so much time on a track, and Madlib would hear, through the walls, the same song over and over again. He would get so frustrated and sick of hearing the same song. So Madlib’s [approach is] everything is just 10, 20 minutes, and then on to the next track, on to the next track.”
The discussion also reveals that 2000’s Unseen became a breakthrough project by accident. “Quasimoto, that was like on the back. Wildchild gave me a Lootpack tape; Quasimoto happened to be on the back. Then I asked Madlib about Quasimoto. He’s like, ‘Oh, you weren’t supposed to hear that,’ like he was embarrassed. I was like, ‘Nah, I want to do that; yo, I love that.’” Peanut Butter Wolf continues, “[The Unseen was recorded] to cassette. The engineer didn’t want to mix it because—he didn’t want his name on it. ‘I’ll lose business if I put my name on this as the engineer.’ There’s all that hiss and everything.”
Back in the mid-1990s, when Wolf was working at a distributor in addition to releasing beat records for DJs. House Shoes, another artist, DJ, and producer, called him on behalf of a Detroit, Michigan producer, Jay Dee. “Shoes was like ‘I’m sitting on all these unreleased Jay Dee remixes. Because the major labels ask him to do remixes and then they never accept them.’ So Q-Tip was [J Dilla’s] manager, hookin’ him up with a lot of stuff. So [House Shoes] was like, ‘Me and Jay Dee want to a vinyl [release] of this, and we just want to do 1,000 copies.’” Released with a green label, the limited edition pressing contained a remix of D’Angelo’s “Me And Those Dreamin’ Eyes Of Mine,” Das EFX, Masta Ace Incorporated, and others. The relationship would build over the next decade-plus. Just days before his 2006 death, J Dilla released Instrumental Hip-Hop album Donuts on Stones Throw Records.
At 1:32:00, Phonte asks Peanut Butter Wolf about parting ways with Madlib and Stones Throw’s former label manager, Eothen “Egon” Alapatt. Throughout his career, Madlib has done projects outside of Stones Throw, including Blue Note and BBE. However, in the early 2010s, he began to release much of his material outside the Los Angeles, California-based label. “It’s kind of a long story,” begins Wolf. “With Madlib and Egon, who used to run [Stones Throw Records], things weren’t creatively working out between Egon and I, and I had to let Egon go. He basically took Madlib with him. He gave Madlib his own deal, his own label. Madlib’s stuff theoretically comes out on [Madlib Invasion]. He still does some stuff for us. He scored the movie [Our Vinyl Weighs A Ton] and did the soundtrack for that. It’s a loving relationship, but you know. Egon’s more involved in that.”
Stones Throw remains active. In 2018, they released Homeboy Sandman & Edan’s Humble Pi. Elsewhere in the interview, Peanut Butter Wolf reveals that Rawkus Records was pursuing acquiring Stones Throw in the 2000s. He says he flew to New York to meet with the label founders but was not interested. Wolf also describes his current roster. He also discusses plans to open a vinyl bar, featuring 7,000 of his personal records. Guest DJs will be required to use the music library during sets.
At the 37:00 mark, Questlove brings up Lootpack, the Oxnard, California collective of Madlib, Wildchild, and DJ Romes. The trio that first appeared on Tha Alkaholiks’ 21 & Over went on to release a full-length on Stones Throw in 1998. That collection, Soundpieces: Da Antidote, prompted J Dilla to call Soulquarians collaborator Questlove late one night shortly after its release. “I met my match, man,” Dilla reportedly told The Roots’ band-leader. At the time, Quest’ recalls purchasing four copies at Downtown Manhattan’s Fat Beats store, and listening to the album alongside D’Angelo, presumably at the Electric Lady Studios where they were recording Voodoo. Five years later, Madlib and Dilla would form JayLib together.
Wolf explains, “I was going through the demos recently; the demo versions were all just recorded the way Madlib wanted it. Then we went to like a bigger studio and they multi-tracked it, and mixed everything [differently]. Madlib is like the nicest guy—like he won’t always speak up for what he wants sometimes, so you won’t always know what he really he wants—at least he was back then. So the engineer that did Lootpack, he mixed it a lot differently than the way Madlib’s demo sounded. Madlib cannot listen to [Soundpieces: Da Antidote]; he hates it because of the [mix]. Everything is too perfect and clean for him—clean for the [Emu Systems SP] 1200 anyway.”
Wolf, who is an accomplished artist, DJ, and producer says that Madlib’s subsequent control of the mix grew challenging as Stones Throw tried to shop him to artists. “After that, he would never give [engineers or artists] multi-tracks. I was trying to get Madlib beats to Nas and Q-Tip and people at the time, and it couldn’t happen ’cause he wouldn’t multi-track it.” One placement was in 2004, on De La Soul’s The Grind Date. “I remember with De La [Soul], when they did the ‘Shopping Bags’ [single], they wrote to it after I gave them just the two-track of it. They’re like, ‘Alright, we [are ready] for the multi’s.’ There are no multi’s. They were upset with me; I was kind of caught in the middle ’cause it was miscommunication where they assumed I was gonna give them multi’s on it.” Phonte says that in his experience with Madlib, he has witnessed this to be true. He says that as a longtime fan, he appreciates the aesthetic.
“That’s how Madvillain was created. That’s how JayLib, all the Quasimoto [albums too],” continues Peanut Butter Wolf. “When Madlib told me he wanted to work with DOOM and Dilla, that was our job to find those two guys and make it happen.”
As the discussion progresses into 2004’s Madvillainy, Wolf brings up what is known as “The Retarded Hard Copy” version of the collaborative project between MF DOOM and Madlib. “There’s a whole other version of [Madvillainy]; I don’t know if you ever heard it. But originally, DOOM rapped the whole album in like a hype tone. That version leaked. And I don’t know if DOOM felt like since it leaked he was gonna re-do the whole album or—I don’t know. But for whatever reason, he went back and did the whole album in a laid back way.”
Despite the released version’s accolades, some who have heard both were reportedly hesitant. “The initial response was, ‘I liked him better hype. Why’d he do that? He ruined it.’ But for the people who never heard the hype version, they really responded to it.”
Wolf continues, “That album, JayLib, Quas’, and several other albums were all done at the same time using 150 beats that Madlib had put on three CDs. It was like 50 beats per CD. And it was all like 30-second snippets and stuff.” The guest then explains how and why the onetime flagship artist of Stones Throw stays so prolific. “They’re all done so quickly. He used to live with another producer. That other producer would spend so much time on a track, and Madlib would hear, through the walls, the same song over and over again. He would get so frustrated and sick of hearing the same song. So Madlib’s [approach is] everything is just 10, 20 minutes, and then on to the next track, on to the next track.”
The discussion also reveals that 2000’s Unseen became a breakthrough project by accident. “Quasimoto, that was like on the back. Wildchild gave me a Lootpack tape; Quasimoto happened to be on the back. Then I asked Madlib about Quasimoto. He’s like, ‘Oh, you weren’t supposed to hear that,’ like he was embarrassed. I was like, ‘Nah, I want to do that; yo, I love that.’” Peanut Butter Wolf continues, “[The Unseen was recorded] to cassette. The engineer didn’t want to mix it because—he didn’t want his name on it. ‘I’ll lose business if I put my name on this as the engineer.’ There’s all that hiss and everything.”
Back in the mid-1990s, when Wolf was working at a distributor in addition to releasing beat records for DJs. House Shoes, another artist, DJ, and producer, called him on behalf of a Detroit, Michigan producer, Jay Dee. “Shoes was like ‘I’m sitting on all these unreleased Jay Dee remixes. Because the major labels ask him to do remixes and then they never accept them.’ So Q-Tip was [J Dilla’s] manager, hookin’ him up with a lot of stuff. So [House Shoes] was like, ‘Me and Jay Dee want to a vinyl [release] of this, and we just want to do 1,000 copies.’” Released with a green label, the limited edition pressing contained a remix of D’Angelo’s “Me And Those Dreamin’ Eyes Of Mine,” Das EFX, Masta Ace Incorporated, and others. The relationship would build over the next decade-plus. Just days before his 2006 death, J Dilla released Instrumental Hip-Hop album Donuts on Stones Throw Records.
At 1:32:00, Phonte asks Peanut Butter Wolf about parting ways with Madlib and Stones Throw’s former label manager, Eothen “Egon” Alapatt. Throughout his career, Madlib has done projects outside of Stones Throw, including Blue Note and BBE. However, in the early 2010s, he began to release much of his material outside the Los Angeles, California-based label. “It’s kind of a long story,” begins Wolf. “With Madlib and Egon, who used to run [Stones Throw Records], things weren’t creatively working out between Egon and I, and I had to let Egon go. He basically took Madlib with him. He gave Madlib his own deal, his own label. Madlib’s stuff theoretically comes out on [Madlib Invasion]. He still does some stuff for us. He scored the movie [Our Vinyl Weighs A Ton] and did the soundtrack for that. It’s a loving relationship, but you know. Egon’s more involved in that.”
Stones Throw remains active. In 2018, they released Homeboy Sandman & Edan’s Humble Pi. Elsewhere in the interview, Peanut Butter Wolf reveals that Rawkus Records was pursuing acquiring Stones Throw in the 2000s. He says he flew to New York to meet with the label founders but was not interested. Wolf also describes his current roster. He also discusses plans to open a vinyl bar, featuring 7,000 of his personal records. Guest DJs will be required to use the music library during sets.
In addition to phenomenal lyricism and one-of-a-kind production, one of DOOM’s charms is his mystery. Perhaps as an extension of the metal-faced mask that he has worn for nearly 20 years, the man born Daniel Dumile rarely grants interviews. While verified accounts may exist, DOOM’s one great artist of the 21st century that needs no social media to promote anything he does. When DOOM speaks, it’s almost always on wax, and it’s worth listening. If it’s not broken, why fix it? Fifteen years ago, DOOM was still doing some interviews with members of the Hip-Hop press. In fact, I spoke with Metal Face surrounding a Nas remix project at the top of 2003. Although meaningful to me in hindsight, the framework of that interview regrettably had more to do with Nas than DOOM. That is not the case for Peter Agoston. The veteran Hip-Hop journalist, show promoter, and Female Fun record label founder created what I feel is the definitive DOOM conversation—especially as it appeared in a 2003 issue of Elemental magazine (a time and a bygone publication we both contributed). All It Takes Is 1 Drink To Get MF DOOM & Madlib Animated (Video) In honor of the 100th episode of his podcast, The House List, Agoston shares the audio of the mid-’03 conversations with DOOM that yielded the mag’ feature. He reportedly did so with DOOM’s blessing. The two men have a strong rapport; Female Fun released the first Special Herbs volume, a concept that Peter and DOOM created together. Moreover, DOOM—in between taking calls and what appears to be a crying baby—gets to the root of his late ’90s transformation. In this conversation, the legendary and dynamic artist expounds on the genesis of his production style, the lean circumstances that birthed Operation Doomsday, and his direction behind the project he was promoting, MM…FOOD. “I had the first idea for this FOOD album, it must’ve been right around when I was finishing up the Doomsday album,” DOOM admits at 22:00, while discussing the then-upcoming Rhymesayers Entertainment release. “It was after Doomsday was done, but still like not out yet that I came up with [MM…Food]; I still had residual ideas. Ideas never stop and sh*t. It was a similar concept, as far as production goes. That’s the one thing that ties all the DOOM albums together, it’s production—the Hip-Hop blend technique, with rhymes. I had a couple of those; I kept bumping into new ones. Like on the mixtape circuit, I could kill ’em with the ideas I be havin’, with the Hip-Hop instrumentals mixed with the ’80s slow songs.” DOOM & DJ Muggs Assassinate Kanye West In Their Latest Video Agoston asks the history behind this technique, which started creeping into DOOM’s beats in the KMD years, including on songs like “What A Ni**a Know?” The MC/producer replies, “That sh*t came from f*ckin’ DJ’ing parties, yo. In the park, spinnin’, on some the girls wanna hear one thing and the ni**as wanna hear [another] thing. That’s when Just-Ice came out with ‘Latoya’ and all that good sh*t! [Chuckles] And they had all those slow instrumentals, like EPMD with ‘You’re A Customer.’” He also praises the music of Keith Sweat, KRS-One, Superlover Cee & Casanova Rud, and Jody Watley. “I would look for that blend to keep the party moving when I was DJ’ing. It was always be a change from the norm that would please the whole crowd. I took that style and incorporated it into making beats to achieve the same effects, with lyrics on it. I’m a DJ first.” Asked when he began DJ’ing in Freeport, Long Island, DOOM says in the summer following third grade. He describes using his babysitter’s older sons’ vintage Technics turntables and feeling the rush of playing park jams with records. He says the first records that he ever played was Tom Tom Club’s “Genius Of Love” and Otis Redding’s “Tramp.” DOOM’s imagery is not unlike his verses, as is his slang. He admits that his voice changed from KMD to his Doomsday era due to the “thousands of blunts” he smoked. He says that his mother was a nurse and his father was a school teacher. DOOM is specific about video games, comics, and music—the three loves that he has carried since. He describes dubbing Frankie Crocker, Awesome Two, and The World Famous Supreme Team radio shows in New York, and their profound influence on him. Do Remember When DOOM Was Just An MC With Peachfuzz On His Chin (Video) At 30:00, DOOM separates his character from “the author” when he speaks about his birthplace in London, England. “I gotta make the separation between me [and] MF DOOM.” He describes living in Downtown Manhattan for a period, going to “a live school,” and even living in the same Mount Vernon that Heavy D and Pete Rock represent. DOOM mentions his late, younger brother Subroc in passing too. “The effect that it had on us, musically—we’re in the city, then we’re in the suburbs, then we’re in the city,” he describes, suggesting a diverse exposure to sounds and culture. Speaking about comics, the MC/producer traces the influence to his music. “I think a lot of my writing [influence] as far as the range of sh*t that I would deal with came from reading that type of stuff [in the Marvel Universe] and see how far they went with it…there’s so many different personalities and they’d show both sides of each character. When you learn that duality when you’re young it’s good. Know it. Positive and negative both need to exist; neither one is better than the other one.” Of the Dr. Doom comic, in particular, he says, “They call me ‘DOOM’ too [because of my last name Dumile]. I could always relate to that character. I liked him; he was ill. He’d always come through [after] he disappeared. It seemed like they killed him, but he always comes back.” He then moves into his career. “Only after the KMD sh*t did I really say, ‘Word, yo, if I was to come back—it just hit me one day. [My comeback] would have to be as that dude. That’s the character I would pick. I guess it was one of them days I was just there, broker than a mothaf*cka, sittin’, listening to some Jazz [radio] station [with] nothin’ to do, really, really broke. This is after the KMD sh*t, after we’d been on the road and was on a major label and all that sh*t. Going back to ground zero, I’m damn near homeless—like lucky [to even have a place to stay]. It was summertime, beautiful day out, [I decided to model my comeback after Dr. Doom]. In a lot of ways, it prevents a lot of the bullsh*t from happening. [There is] a lot of bullsh*t associated with this particular genre of music. The paparazzi or whatever you call it, the haters—the f*ckin’ bullsh*t.” Upset at critics, DOOM seems to suggest that a character shields him from cheap criticism. He adds, “I try to keep my sh*t true to life anyway, but [use a created universe too] to keep it interesting. My life [is] too boring.” MF DOOM, Inspectah Deck & Esoteric Deliver A Video Fit For Villainous Rhymes As DOOM speaks further in the interview, he shows that his life is far from dull. The MC recalls KMD seeing De La Soul as the biggest brother, as well as A Tribe Called Quest. He describes being Elektra Records label-mates with Leaders Of The New School and Brand Nubian. Later on, MF DOOM praises Dante Ross, who signed KMD. He recalls Ross and the Stimulated Dummies Lower Manhattan studio in a basement maze, where many recordings were made. DOOM describes using the Akai MPC-60, and later having to sell it. He describes his strategy surrounding a late 1990s return to Rap. “I took it back to when I first started rhyming in school [when I was writing raps in the margins of my notes]. That’s when the sh*t was just for fun…nobody was making money off the sh*t. That’s when it was at its truest form, so I’m like, ‘I’ll take it back to that sh*t.’ I looked and said, ‘Okay, what is it that people like about what we do? It’s rhyming—the way we f*ck with the words on the beat. [None] of the sh*t in between matters at all.” Moments later he describes deciding to change his name and reinventing himself. “[I thought] let me do this DOOM thing and see how the public takes it. But that was just me in my mind. I [was] still broke. I had no way to put the record out. But I’m doing the music.” DOOM & Black Thought Have Released A Track Showcasing How Mad Nice They Are (Audio) Taking Rap back to the essence, DOOM took his tape machine, sampler, and his last crate of records and made “Dead Bent.” The early recordings took place in Northern Virginia, Freeport, and at DJ Stretch Armstrong’s home studio when DOOM was in the city. Living in the same city of Freeport in which he spent part of his youth, DOOM says he was living low in the sort of place without a shower. However, he says “at least I had a roof over my head.” The artist also liked the summer weather and some of the more peaceful surroundings that were conducive to creativity. Later, in the interview, he describes taking that first new-era song to Bobbito, who had just released material from Kool Keith’s Cenobites group. Eventually released on Fondle ‘Em Records, that would be the ignition to a game-changing transformation. At 57:00, DOOM speaks about the concept to his solo debut. “The story picks up where everything went crazy with the Elektra [Records shelving Black Bastards]. My brother [Subroc] went back to the essence, God bless—terrible accident sh*t. I’m going through that. At the same time I just had a son. [Subroc’s] daughter was born, then my son was born. [I became a new parent at the same time my] career basically went to zero, as far as financially and sh*t. It was a lot of pressures.” Elsewhere in the interview, DOOM uses the word “homeless” to describe some of that period. 15 Years Ago MF DOOM & Aesop Rock Shined Light Upon The “Black List” (Audio) This interview is an illuminating travel back to a period when MF DOOM was still actualizing plans from that earlier period. MM…FOOD released in mid-2003 and became an important solo album in an expanding catalog. During the awareness from that as well as 2004’s Madvillainy (with Madvillain) and The Mouse & The Mask (with DangerDOOM), DOOM began stepping further away from interviews, especially conversations of this depth. This is a great opportunity to hear the MC speak, and understand the workings of his mind as well as his gripping story. Other House List episodes of note include in-depth conversations with Count Bass D, Just-Ice, and yet another Elemental contributor/artist, Louis Logic. This year, DOOM partnered with Inspectah Deck, Esoteric, and DJ 7L for CZARFACE Meets Metal Face.
